Interview with movie director Edwin Brienen

Edwin Brienen grew up in Holland. After the highschool degree he studied philosophy and psychology. He was involved in multimedia events in the Amsterdam Club Scene and worked at the dutch radio/tv station VPRO. Finally he started to work on his own movies. In 2000 he directed his debut film "Terrorama". B.Bondi asked Edwin Brienen 22 questions...

when doing some research about your history in the web, i found a note about your years at VPRO (national dutch radio- and tv). from 1993-2002 you moderated there the radioshows "De Moordlijst" (alternative charts) and "Koud Zweet" (prime-time magazine). how came, that you got that job? was it your plan or did they knock on your door?

E. Brienen: As a child, I always dreamt of being a radio host. When I was 9, I presented a children’s programme for VPRO Radio ‘Een Klap Op Je Kop’. Until my 21st, I always worked hard on a radio career: I was doing shows for local radio stations, etc. When Aldith Hunkar left for televison, I could replace her in a daily radio night show, ‘Zone’ it was called. I turned it into a shock show, insulted the callers and asked I-f to do a weekly electro mix. After two months we had almost half a million listeners, unique for this kind of non-radio.

in the 1990s you also wrote articles for the music magazines "Opscene" and "OOR". besides, you initiated the "X-Rated Porno Extravaganzas" (events in amsterdam, where pornography and art were melted together) and you made the TV-program "Ultra Vista". Can you tell us a bit more about what was your idea about "X-Rated Porno Extravaganzas" and Ultra Vista"?

E.Brienen: ‘X-Rated’ was a couple of evenings in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. Acts like Gitane Demone and Hafler Trio shared the stage with fistfucking gay couples and striptease girls from hell, that all looked as if they all belonged to ‘Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling’, this trash TV show from the 80s. ‘Ultra Vista’ was the cult show I hosted for three years on TV. I played this star reporter Heinrich, a mix between a leather gay and a neo-nazi. I was interviewing Dutch celebrities, and it was all very trashy and subversive. We (Suzanne Jansonius and I) never really thought about the things we created, but there were all these newsgroups at the newfound internet, discussing meanings and symbols.

during a break of 2 years at VPRO, you directed shows at "Veronica Television". How came it to the step "moderator - director"? was it always your plan to direct something sooner or later, or was it just a "natural" development which led you from radio/tv moderator to the director job?

E.Brienen: I was fed up with the politically correct atmosphere within the VPRO, and decided to make a change. Menno Buch, the sex king of Dutch TV, asked me to join his club. I made two seasons television with him (freaky TV show that fulfilled sexual wishes of degenerated viewers), and a show about norms and values with Theo van Gogh. It was fun to do, but I wanted to put my energy in my films. And so I did.

you made two short movies. 1998 "Sweet Surprise" and 1999 "Liefde in de nacht". what are they about?

E.Brienen: ‘Sweet Surprise’ was a trashy horror-short, about a strange guy getting picked up by two murderous lesbians. Kind of John Waters, with lots of splatter and gore, and with a Telly Savalas playback act! Was great fun to made, but will -due to copyright problems- probably never be released. ‘Liefde In De Nacht’ I erased from my memory. A big failure.


in 2000 you wrote, directed and produced your first movie "terrorama", a story about a group of 6 people who kidnap a tv moderator; a story which contains sex, drugs, "perversions" and violence. how did you realise this project? was there a complete book before you started the shots, or was there space for spontaneous changes and dialogues?

E.Brienen: Hell, no. It was my first feature film, and the idea to be responsible for a group of 40 people (cast and crew) freaked me out. I didn’t want any surprises. Everything was written down, from beginning til end. I also felt, due to the somewhat extreme content of the film, that actors should realize what kind of film they were doing. The whole process of realizing the film was kinda simple. I found a producer, paid 50% myself. I asked Kiki Classen (was part of Holland’s most famous sitcom ever, ‘Zeg ‘ns AAA’) to play the leading role of killing diva, and she agreed. We shot it in 33 days on location in Amsterdam. October 2001 was the Dutch premiere.

is/was "terrorama" censored somewhere or did you get any other problems or problematic (i.e. prudish, shocked) reactions?

E.Brienen: During the Amsterdam premiere, about half of the audience ignored me afterwards. They looked at me like I was some serial-killing freak. In Mexico and the UK there were lots of problems with the Jesus masturbating scene, because of laws forbidding blasphemy. During the premiere in Mexico City, the police came in to confisgate the master. They stopped the showing and I had to hide on the floor. In Germany and Holland there were complete other problems, when some left-winged press morons accused me of glorifying neo-nazi symbols, blabla. Actually, only the Americans loved it. They didn’t take the symbolism that serious, treated it more like some fucked up comedy. And in a way, that’s exactly what it is.

Of course the reactions changed with the years. Since Theo van Gogh got murdered, a dark shadow fell on the film as Theo reads from the Koran in one of the scenes. Eventually he got murdered for using texts from the Koran in his own short film, ‘Submission, Part 1’. Now there are people who don’t wanna show ‘Terrorama’ anymore because of this Koran scene. It might hurt some Muslim people. I don’t understand this mentality. What about Theo? The day he got butchered, Dutch TV should have broadcasted ‘Submission’ prime-time on all channels.

when reading about your history, the word "scandal" appears once in a while (i.e. in respect to "terrorama" or with that suicide scenario live on air). do you like to provocate? if yes, do you like provocation just like this, or are there specialintentions behind it (which one)?

E.Brienen: Lots of people ask, and it’s hard to answer. I sincerely believe it’s important to provoke in today’s society. Everything is so goddamn boring and conservative in modern art. In personal life, we are manipulated like hell. That calls for an anti-reaction. And film and television (and music or literature) is the perfect medium for this. But eventually it has all to do with you being narrow- or openminded. Breaking taboos is a serious matter, I sincerely believe in its importance. Please make jokes about Jews and Muslims, especially now. As long as we don’t create an atmosphere of fear –fear of being attacked by muslim idiots- I think everything will be fine.

On the other hand, I think shock value in serious art has anything to do with a moral point-of-view. Personally, I’m astonished by the similarity between good and evil. This whole philosophy behind religion for example. That God can’t exist without the devil, that they need each other to bolster their own existences. The only good film ever made about Adolf Hitler, was Syberberg’s ‘Hitler – ein Film aus Deutschland’. Because instead of telling me: Hitler is bad, Syberberg tells me: Hitler is in all of us. I thought that was amazing. Maybe Sharon should have thought of that philosophy. He probably wouldn’t have build concentration camps for the Palestinians, 60 years after Hitler. Not choosing for a good and evil side is provocative. But hey, that’s what art should do. Provoke.

in 2003 you made your second movie "lebenspornography". a story about hopeless artists with s.e problems in life, who are going to set up an erotic show at a berlin nightclub. how long did you work on that movie, did you made it completely in berlin and caused it any scandals too?

E.Brienen: I worked way too long on that film. It was shot in 55 days, spread over two years. The crew was fucked up. One gaffer tried to kill himself with gasoline. There was a main actor with a drugs problem (no names). There were fights between me and the producer. Between the camera woman and the producer’s girlfriend. It was a horrible experience. After the first 20 days, I canceled the shooting. I remember well. I was sitting in some sleazy cafe in Berlin-Wedding, together with Eva Dorrepaal and Esther Verkaaik (main actors). I told them I was thinking about throwing away the footage. It’s my only feature film I don’t like. I mean, I like certain scenes. I love the soundtrack. But as a total end result... no.

Some people were upset about the opening of the film with Jean-Louis Costes. In the first two minutes you see some pissing and puking. Later I found out, lots of German theaters simply started the film after those two minutes. Man, I was furious. I hate censorship.

how is life in berlin - for brienen as private person, and for brienen the director? is there a lively underground movie scene in berlin?

E.Brienen: Berlin is probably the most difficult city to make independent films. The people here simply don’t care. Film means business. There’s not really a sense for underground film, as far as I can judge. But the people who like strange films, they’re really into it. Almost fanatic. As my private life concerns... I’d prefer to keep it private.

is it correct, that you make a documentary about berlin's underground scene for VPRO? can you tell us some facts about it?

E.Brienen: I canceled the show. Berlin underground means bleep-oink-lounge, intellectual men wearing black glasses acting very difficult. These Berlin people are so politically correct. They take everything serious. I mean, last week there was a black metal night in Kreuzberg, and they were proud to annouce the ticket sales went to Warchild. No, it was not a joke. I don’t want my money to go to poor black children in Africa. Jesus Christ! No wonder these underground DJ’s hardly get paid.

comparing germany and holland. was it more easy in germany or holland? or doesnt it matter? generally, what are the difficulties to live and work as an (underground) moviedirector today?

E.Brienen: It’s easier to get things done in Holland. But I truly believe the atmosphere in Holland is not good for my work. Not now. Maybe in a few years again. When Holland is finally released from its ignorance.

it is no secret that you like rainer werner fassbinder movies. would you say, they are still a big inspiration for you? do you have the feeling he is already a forgotten genious, or do you think his work is still "present" nowadays in germany or also at other places (a while ago there is a retrospective in paris)? can you name some of your favourite fassbinder movies?

E.Brienen: Most Germans I know don’t like him that much, but he’s definitely not a forgotten genius. Especially the Americans completely re-discovered him. I think Juliane Lorenz (Fassbinder’s long-time editor) is doing a great job with her Rainer Werner Fassbinder Foundation. The DVD releases under her supervision are all amazing. For me, Fassbinder is still a big inspiration. My favorites are "Die bitteren Tränen der Petra von Kant", "In einem Jahr mit 13 Monden", "Warum läuft Herr R. Amok?", "Die dritte Generation" and the BRD Trilogy.

around 2001 you were also living and working in new york for some time. how were your experiences there?

E.Brienen: It’s like the cliché on the famous t-shirt: I love New York. It’s the only city in the world where this mixed, schizophrenic feeling of complete freedom and threatening apocalypse go hand in hand together. Maybe in Mexico City too. Deep in my heart, I’m really this American redneck dude. The lost son of George Bush. I love diners, the bagels, the megastores, the skyline, the city noise. And there was of course 9/11, it’s the city that reminds me of the most freaky moment in my life so far. That day, in the afternoon, I walked back from Ground Zero to Manhattan, 42nd Street. When I saw the first images of Times Square, my breath stocked. I saw an empty Manhattan. There was not a single soul on the streets. Just a black guy wearing a huge crucifix, with self-hammered nails through his hands. In the midst of Manhattan, around 3 on a Tuesday afternoon. An apocalyptic doom vision became real. Fucking scary and exciting at the same time. I wrote a script about it. If anybody wants to finance it, please feel free to email me.

i have read you made a documentary about NY underground scenes? is it finished and whats its title?

E.Brienen: The series about NY underground were done for VPRO, and already have been broadcasted in September and October 2001. It was a live show from Manhattan, with guests like Biohazard, Adam X, Fischerspooner, Blondie, Man Parrish, A.R.E. Weapons and Patti Smith. The shows were dominated by the Twin Towers attack, that took place three days after the first show. The atmosphere is kind of doomy, but it was interesting to make though. You can order CD’s at VPRO Radio.

as yet you always worked together with interesting producers for your movies (I-f, Intergalactic Gary, L.S.E.). how important is the music for you in your movies and under which criteria have you selected the producers so far? is it important for you, that they are "underground" artists or doesnt that matter at all?

E.Brienen: For me, it’s imporant a music producer has certain artistic esthetics. I’m not interested in studio freaks, in love with their new Macs. If you listen to tracks from I-f or Le Syndicat Electronique, you see images. They compose their music as film directors. I truly believe Ferenc and Alexandre are the most important artists since Throbbing Gristle, Coil and Suicide. I’m really proud they both did a soundtrack. Unfortunately they are the top in electronic music. So it’s kinda difficult for me to experiment with some new names. Thank God I’m thinking of using a hardrock soundrack for my next film. And Wagner always do! To be honest, I hate the word underground. I don’t believe in underground, I believe in talent.

what records /music do you listen to in general? guitars, electronics, or all mixed up?

E.Brienen: I have a kind of schizophrenic taste. Mozart, Laibach and Death in June. Or Goldfrapp and The Knife. Or Twisted Sister and Slayer. It’s all possible. I’m not that obsessed with new music anymore as I was. These days I use it as inspiration. Listening to music while I’m writing a new script could be very helpfull. For ‘Last Performance’, I was looking for a kind of New York underground feeling. I listened a lot to Klaus Nomi and Yoko Ono, and transported myself to an imaginery New York City in the early eighties. No, it’s not authentic at all. These are my fantasies.

back to the movies: it is difficult to find some more infos about your movie "both ends burning". what is it about?

E.Brienen: Maybe my most accessible movie so far. I wrote it as a present for actress Esther Eva Verkaaik. There’s still a website online: ‘www.both-ends-burning.com’. It’s a bitter story about love. Or actually, the failure of love. More generally speaking, it’s about ideals we refuse to give up. Even if we know these ideals don’t function anymore.

in the web, i have read about new projects called "comeback" and "liebe mich". what can you tell us about that?

E.Brienen: Actually, that’s the same project. Both were working titles for what eventually became ‘Last Performance’.

any other projects planned or already in the making? and: any other plans/projects besides movies?

E.Brienen: Last Summer I shot ‘Last Performance’. An American production, set in New York City. It tells the story of a European actress (Eva Dorrepaal), who gets trapped in a destructive love triangle and eventually signs for her own downfall. It’s a very decadent film, a kind of ‘Dynasty’ (Denver Clan) meets Fassbinder. It will be released around May 2006.

December 15th was the German premiere of ‘Warum Ulli sich am Weihnachtsabend umbringen wollte’ (Why Ulli Wanted to Kill Himself on Christmas Eve). A dark comedy about anti-hero Ulli, who’s desperately searching for company during Christmas Eve. Marin Caktas, Laura Tonke, Hendrik Arnst, Ades Zabel, Tomas Spencer, Esther Eva Verkaaik and many others joined the cast.

And I just finished ‘Hysteria’. I’m really, really proud of this film, as it’s my most artistic ever. Also a special experience, as I did camera myself for the first time. It’s a dangerous film, my most nihilistic so far. You know, we all like to make our own ‘Salo – 120 Days of Sodom’. But if you reach that level of extremity, it scares the shit out of you. What to make after such a film? Children’s TV? It will be shortly released before (or after) ‘Last Performance’.

Other projects: ‘Eva Braun Ist Tot’ is a multi-medial DJ/art-collective I founded with fashion-photorapher Rachel de Joode (www.evabraunisttot.com)

And this year I finally, finally want to direct a theater play.


where can an interested person get your movies? are they available on DVD or are there only showings in selected "alternative cinemas"?

E.Brienen: ‘Terrorama’ will be released through Redemption (Salvation Film) in the UK, hopefully in April. There were a lot of problems with British censorship and copyrights, so the release got several times delayed. ‘Lebenspornografie’ will not be released before October 2006. The soundtrack though is available through Invasion Planete. ‘Both Ends Burning’ can be ordered through Ultra Vista Film. ‘Warum Ulli…’ and ‘Last Performance’ are cinema-only releases so far. ‘Hysteria’ will be edited next month. For all screening dates, check out my website: www.edwinbrienen.com

which directors/movies do you like personally? any big favourites (lately)?

E.Brienen: Favorites: Rainer Werner Fassbinder, David Lynch, Andrej Zulawski, Orson Welles, David Cronenberg. His latest ‘A History of Violence’ is so fucking clever. Dusan Makavejev is probably the most underrated film director ever. His ‘Sweet Movie’ is absolutely brilliant. I find Italian seventies cinema very inspiring: Pasolini, Argento, Alberto Cavallone. The last name is one of these obscure seventies directors. He did one of my favorite films all time, ‘Blue Movie’: a merciless exercise in nihilistic cinema. In general I like all kinds of films. As long as Tom Hanks do not appear in them, I’m fine. For a trashy seventies-horror you can wake me up.


in john waters' movie "cecil b. demented" the story is about a fight against commercial cineplex theatres. on this topic: do you feel the same like cecil's guerrilla?

E.Brienen: Not really, I have nothing against commercial films. I just don’t want to see them. But if I were Cecil for one day, I’d kidnap Linda Evans and force her to play a very trashy version of Krystle in some money-wasting Denver Clan-remake. Yes, I’m made for capitalism.

Published by Simulacron Network, Winter 2005/06 (READ FULL ARTICLE)